[NOTE: Due to the length of the interview, I have broken this up into two blog posts]
Meet the Debt Slayers
It’s been said that God is the ultimate networker—or connector in life. This couldn’t be more true in how I become connected to Tim Norris. I met Tim, his lovely wife LeAnn, and their beautiful baby boy at a parent conference at our church. Tim and his family were sitting across the table from my wife and I. During one of the breaks, Tim mentioned writing a book. I perked up and asked what kind of book he was writing and he said it was about getting out of debt. Astonished, I told him I was doing the same thing. We exchanged contact info and stayed in touch throughout our book-writing journeys. After Tim shared more of his story – crushing $400K in debt – I basically begged him to be interviewed for my book.
Tim is 32 and from Marietta, Georgia. He earned a bachelor’s degree in business marketing from Morehouse College before completing his master’s in economics at DePaul University. He now works as a strategic sourcing manager in Atlanta. You can read Tim and LeAnn’s full story in their book, The Debt Slayers and follow them online at Cultivate Freedom & Legacy.
What is your view of money? (How do you define it?)
Money is a currency—a means of exchange primarily because there is a government and entities to regulate it and ensure it has some type of value. On the other hand, it’s a piece of paper. I’ve heard other people describe money as a “means to an end.” That really puts it into perspective because you can put too much value on money. People say money is power. Money opens doors. Money is the ultimate thing to possess. I’m not downplaying that. It’s very important but the key to money is how you allocate it, use it, and leverage it. For example, you can be a scrooge and have millions of dollars in the bank but what are you doing with it? You’re not investing it. You’re not donating it. You’re not supporting businesses you believe in. You’re not helping others. I think money in that regard is useless.
Things tend to be valued based on scarcity. Ultimately money is a means to an end because it’s how you use it. That’s a good baseline to an approach to money.
How has you view of money changed from your childhood to adulthood?
My view on money has not really changed but my approach has. Growing up, financial education wasn’t the biggest thing in my household. My parents were always, and still are, big givers. I’ve only seen one side of money my whole life—giving it to help people. My parents are good Samaritans and a lot of their lives have been about ministry and helping others. Since I’ve never had a strong foundation of money I don’t think I ever had a solid perception of what it was besides, “I need money to live. I need money to provide a certain type of lifestyle.” That’s what my view was and still is but my approach to money has changed.
My previous approach was to accumulate as much money as possible in all the traditional ways—working, investing, etc. Now my approach is about being a good steward of money. It’s not about accumulating as much money as possible. It’s about investing, saving, giving to the right causes, and being intentional. My new era of handling money is not following what people say to do but deciding what is most important for me to invest in. Another thing that’s important to my money approach is ensuring that I can leave behind a financial legacy to my family for not just one decade but many decades.
What is your view on debt? Is there good debt and bad debt?
When I hear the word “debt” my blood immediately heats up. Our debt-free journey has definitely changed me. I hate debt and there is no such thing as “good debt.” It’s all bad debt. If you owe someone or an entity anything, that is a limitation to some form or fashion. It can be small or large—$500 or $20,000—you are still allocating time and energy to repay that no matter if you’re responsible or irresponsible. You are either being impacting emotionally, financially, or with your time and energy in paying it back, which is ultimately taking away from your true potential.
We all have a purpose and passion that we’re here to fulfill, leverage, and utilize for the greater good. The more time you have to do that, the better off you’re going to be, and the better off society will be because you are going to be making a positive difference with positive energy toward what you’re doing. When you owe someone, you are in a reactive state. You are constantly reacting to the interest that is growing on your loan and your financial state—which ultimately determines what types of jobs you choose, where you live, and what you buy. It’s all impacted by your debt and that impacts a person from reaching their true potential. In addition, debt is an epidemic. Student loans are a $1.6 trillion issue. My wife and I were a product of student loan debt just as any other millennial.
When I hear the word “debt” my blood immediately heats up.
What are your thoughts on student loan debt?
My wife and I had two totally different approaches to debt, but the journey has gotten us on the same page. Before I started college, I believed that student loans were good debt. I was fortunate to stay away from student loans because I was able to obtain some scholarships and my father worked at the college I went to, so I received a tuition wavier. The funny thing is I still managed to graduate with $20,000+ in student loans after earning my undergrad degree. That’s because my scholarships and tuition waiver didn’t cover room and board (living expenses).
My wife, who had much better grades than me, had a difficult time obtaining scholarships. However, she did qualify for some smaller scholarships along the way. I believe she completed her undergrad with somewhere in the range of $30,000 to $50,000 in student loan debt. How we really got off the charts with our debt was when we both decided to go to grad school. My wife ended up going to medical school to become a dentist and I went off to get my master’s in economics in an out-of-state university. Any medical school is going to be expensive—anywhere from $20,000 to $40,000 a year for a four-year program. I thought it was a bright idea to go grad school out of state at a private university. It hurts to say, but I racked up about $80,000 in student loan debt for a two-year program. My wife’s medical school debt ended up being close to $200,000.
There’s a common misconception that there is a such thing as “good debt.” The logic behind it is if you take out a loan that will generate a return more than what the loan is for then it’s good debt. College is a good example of what people say is good debt. The issue is that college is the investment, not the student loan. I think it behooves us to avoid student loans as much as possible. I’m not saying avoid college, I’m saying avoid student loans. That means picking a college where you can take out less loans or none at all.
Having a budget is the most important tool that anyone can have for any financial goal.
What are your thoughts on living off a budget?
A budget is the baseline for all financial decisions. I did not use a budget until I got serious about getting out of debt. My wife had always worked from a budget, but she realized it was not as fine-tuned as it should’ve been. Having a budget is the most important tool that anyone can have for any financial goal. Whether is getting out of debt, saving for a home, or investing, you need a budget. I like the approach that Dave Ramsey takes on budgeting through his EveryDollar app—the idea of allocating a line item to every penny. That’s when we really began to fine-tune our budget to become debt free. Having a budget that’s drilled down to the penny allows you to maximize savings and to achieve those goals that you are trying to obtain in the most efficient way. Not only am I a firm believer in a budget, I also think it’s a mandate. You cannot afford to live without one.
Saving money? Why is that important?
We are currently in the process of finalizing what percent we want to save but the goal is to save as much as possible. We’re in a tight spot because we’ve had to cut so much over the last four years but if we just keep what we’re doing we’d be saving at least 50% of our income. If you can imagine, we just spent the last four years not saving. We threw everything we had at student loan debt—aside from retirement accounts. We cashed out investments, any extra money that was gifted to us, we’d throw at student loans. We were fighting for our financial legacy, our dignity, and a better lifestyle in the future.
Saving is very important. It’s obviously how you build wealth and obtain financial goals. It’s also critical for establishing an emergency fund. Beyond that, it’s great for establishing a cushion for unforeseen events like a recession or if you lose your job. Saving is a way to fortify your money and build wealth.
We were fighting for our financial legacy, our dignity, and a better lifestyle in the future.
Part 2
Don’t miss part two of my blog series when Tim shares his incredible story of perseverance in paying off $400K+ in debt in just four years, and discusses how we can change our money mindset, why money is a taboo topic, why it’s difficult to separate needs from wants, what money lessons we should teach kids, and how not to stress about money.
Get Tim & LeAnn’s Book!
Tim and LeAnn’s complete journey toward financial freedom can be found in their book, The Debt Slayers.
What’s your story?
If you have a debt-free degree story you’d like to share with the potential of it being a blog feature like this one, email me at jason@yourmarginmatters.com.
Tim’s journey toward financial freedom, along with several other individual’s stories, can be found in my book Margin Matters: How to Live on a Simple Budget & Crush Debt Forever.